3. How do you deal with the conflicting imagery of Jesus dying for his enemies, with Donald Trump’s constant calls to torture them– and even kill their families?
The two messages can’t be further apart: Jesus says, “love your enemies, and do good to them.” Jesus teaches us to reject an “eye for an eye” systems of justice, but to instead be people who love to show mercy, even when it is totally undeserved and comes at a cost to ourselves.
But Trump? In referring to protestors Trump says, “Knock the crap out of them.” And worse, in regards to real enemies, he continually advocates for illegal torture and even killing innocent family members in retaliation. This stuff is beyond immoral– it’s actually totally illegal. It’s a war crime.
How do you contend with the fact that in order to follow Donald Trump, you first must stop following Jesus? If you want to support torturing people that’s you’re right– but you can’t do that and still pretend to be a Christian.
Remember that hellfire preacher from your childhood who would shout, “Choose this day whom you will serve!”? Well, maybe now is an appropriate time to do that.
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Those are all good questions. And in quick answer to #2 … Yes, many Christians do owe Bill Clinton an apology. But the change is partly due to many Christians realizing that, during the 80’s and 90’s, they misunderstood the Biblical role of government. I realized way back then that all the “Moral Majority” stuff was a mistake. Trying to use the power of the State to make non-Christians act like Christians was both immoral and a tactical failure. If we really believe that people can only be saved by giving their heart to Jesus, the WHY, exactly, were we trying to outlaw all those things we thought were immoral? What GOOD would it do? Even if we had managed to get those laws passed, it would have saved 0 souls. And on top of that, would and did set a dangerous precedent for allowing the state to intrude into our individual lives.
That being said, the answer to #2 and to all your other questions is partly this:
It is not the President’s job to be a moral example for the country. It never was and, yes, I have held that position since about 1995.
He is hired to do a job. His effectiveness for that job is mostly determined by his policy positions and his effectiveness in carrying them out. He can be a terrible person and still be a good president.
Make no mistake … Donald Trump was never a nice person. I would not want him in my house. Some people claim that since his election, he has listened to some of the Christians who were such big supporters, but I don’t know if this is true. I hope so, but I don’t know. He certainly has been no example of morality or Christian virtue.
But as President, what matters is the effectiveness of his policies for protecting this country, defending the Constitution, and getting the government out of the way of the citizens so that the citizens can exercise their freedom. How well he did this, and if those policies were good, depends on your perspective.
As for your specific questions:
5. His foul mouth and insults are only relevant to his job performance as president insofar as they affect his effectiveness in carrying out his job. Sometimes these characteristics helped him, sometimes they hurt him. He was no diplomat. Laying off the insulting cracks about foreign heads of state would have have helped a great deal.
4. His poor speech to women is offensive. Unless he repents, it endangers his immortal soul. But unless he speaks to the Queen of England that way and hurts our relationship with England, or speaks to Angel Merkle that way and damages our relationship with Germany, or something like that, it is irrelevant to his job performance as President.
I wouldn’t want him near my wife or daughter. But that has no bearing on whether he is an effective President.
3. Jesus died for His Enemies. He calls us to love our Enemies, and we do. But in Scripture, the divinely ordained job of the State, from the book of Joshua to Romans 13, is to use lethal force to maintain order and defend its citizens. We Christians are called to love our enemies. The STATE is DIVINELY CALLED to STOP those who would harm its citizens, even if that stoppage has to carried out with lethal force.
I respect your position that God calls us to pacifism. I disagree with it, but I respect it. However, scripture clearly FORBIDS the STATE from being pacifist.
We don’t rejoice in violence. We mourn the deaths of our enemies and pray for their souls before they die. But the State’s job, ordained by God, is to protect it’s citizens from those who would harm them even if the State has to use lethal force to do it. And the state is called to do this specifically so that we as individuals never have to. Being a pacifist only works if the State carries out its divinely ordained duty given in Romans 13.
2. As I said, I never thought the job of President required a person be a saint, or even of above average moral character. Only that they uphold the Constitution. Whether Trump upheld said Constitution or not is a matter of some debate. But THAT is the President’s job. In fact, I don’t think a person who follows YOUR morals could possibly be President. Your enemies would eat you alive and we’d be invaded by China inside a year.
Consider Washington, Madison, Lincoln … they all had to use force to preserve this nation. A pacifist nation ceases to exist in a hurry.
1. Voting for Trump is not any sort of endorsement or approval of his atrocious personal behavior. In case there’s any doubt, we wholeheartedly condemn his behavior. But that has no bearing on whether he can carry out the job of President.
And so you’ll know. I only consider Trump less ineffective than Biden or Hillary would have been. He was far from my first choice and I very much wish someone else had won the nomination. But not Jeb Bush. I’m done with Bushes.
While I agree with some of your comment, and particularly appreciate the part about the state being empowered to use deadly force to protect its citizens, I do not agree with you vis-à-vis women. A president who makes those kind of comments about women does not respect them equally, and therefore cannot be trusted to make decisions that support their best interests.
I understand what you’re saying. I have a psychological theory as to why Trump did that, and why I think he would still be able to do his job as President. But it’s just speculation and, frankly, irrelevant.
His words hurt people, and I agree he should have addressed that. He should have realized they were wrong and done what he could to make things right. Whether they indicate a hinderance to his ability to be President or not, they certainly caused people pain, and the truly Presidential thing to do would have been to deal with THAT.
I’m not even Christian and I feel you hit the nail on the head. I follow Buddhist practices, which are inline with the quotes and ideals you took from the Bible. Good character and doing right to others are at the top of my list and some of the many reasons I don’t follow Trump.
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The Bible does not allow us to take one scripture and build a theology around it. When you quote the one about not allowing anything other than edifying words, this does not balance well with reprove, correct and exhort. If Trump refers to Joe Biden and sleepy Joe he is correctly identifying this man as low energy as a result of lacking moral fortitude. Would it be better to say “Joe has done great over the years and will continue to be Gods man” No. We will suffer under rulers like him. Trump is able to say follow me, as he exhibits righteousness, Tell me otherwise.
It is actually very, VERY simple Bennie-boy. IF I were to agree with practically everything Hillary says, but then I discover that she is pro-abortion & pro-gay-rights, if I don’t want to be a HYPOCRITE, I vote for the other candidate BECAUSE of my Christian values. We will NEVER get a “perfect” person as President, thus we do NOT LOOK for a perfect man or woman. We strive to put the best person for the job in office. It really is that simple Benny, so why is it so hard for you to perceive this simple LOGIC & REASONING??
The real truth about evangelicals is that they don’t deserve to be taken seriously. They are on the wrong side of history – theologically, and politically.
The advent of Jesus brought in a New Covenant, where God chose to change how he approched humanity. With this in mind, Christian values should be the values of Christ. When given the opportunity to explain what he meant, he treated sinners with respect and chastised people looking down on them “because of their beliefs”. So, if you are voting anti-gay, then you are not only going against the example of Jesus, but also against his teachings. Jesus had plenty of opportunity to say something about gay people. He didn’t. He did, however have a lot to say about people treating other people as less than themselves.
Isn’t the bigger question “who would God endorse based on the only examples we have in the Bible…old testament leaders?”…..Can you honestly tell me you have looked at examples of leaders that God anointed in the Bible in forming your opinion? Can you tell me that your thoughts on this are based purely on spirituality and not a liberal social agenda?
Let’s get a few things straight. Donald Trump promotes Christianity while the democratic party denounces it at every turn. Kim Clement among others prophesied about Donald Trump being the pick of God. Clement has a history of being 100% correct. The Clinton’s, Obama’s and others inside the democratic party are horrendous liars and thieves. Trump can not be bought. You people are so upset about Trump because of words he said yet none of you are talking about policies. Do you forget how God chose Cyrus to enact policies that would free his chosen people from their burden? Who did Jesus hang out with? Sinners, and who was he against? The self righteous holier than thou folks. Stop being hypocrites and get some tough skin. If you’d rather have Hillary than you’re beyond being helped.
For those people who voted for/support Donald Trump, I have one simple question:
What part of Donald Trump reminds you of Jesus Christ?
Benjamin, may I call you Benjamin, you failed to tell me first if all,. your own view of Bill Clinton. Did you excuse him for seducing an intern and having sex with her in the Oval Office ehile married and while conducting presidential business on the phone? I have observed no evidence that Donald Trump ever acted on his ill-advised words, which I utterly deplore.
Next, do you watch television “news?” The View for starters. But pick any of the “news” shows. If you as a Christian leader and teacher and woukd-be prophet ever watch any if those prograns, you are in no position to speak of attitude to anyone else. They are universally filled with vile language expressing vile attitudes about many things sacred to Christians who take the Bibke seriously.
Then there is the simple matter of the president’s actual job, When a president is sworn in, he promises to uphold the Constitution and assure that the laws passed by the Congress elected and acting in accord with that Constitution are enfirced. Did you support Barack Obama’ s decision not to enforce laws he personally disliked? Donald Trump made tgat promise on the day he was sworn in and he us keeping that promise, with the happy consequence of a drop in lawless behavior in our coumtry.
Christians do not get to vote for Jeuys to be president. We only get to vote for sinful human beings. Without judging the many ways in which Hillary Clinton displays her own sinful human nature, I will point out that she showed in her campaign the same complete disregard for the Constitution as the last president Barack Obama, leaving Christians no choice but to support Donald Trump and give him a chance to demonstrate whether or not he would keep the promise of his oath of office. Not only is he keeping that oromuse, but he is also rapidly putting an end to Unconstitutional and tyrannical practices and regulations imposed on the citizens of the USA by Barack Obama. Given the two candidates available, Christians had only one reasonable choice — Donald Trump. As presidents go, he might well prove himself to be in the top ten. Frankly, since his inauguration, I have seen no evidence of the many accusations you make against him, but if people can forgive Bill Clinton, why not forgive Donald Trump? He, at least, takes his oath of office and his campaign promises seriously, and that is more than you can say for Barack Obama,
Open your eyes. You are looking at someone else. Donald Trump is not upholding the constitution in any way. He has his own laws. He thinks he is the only power and doesn’t give the other two branches of Congress any authority, including the right to call people for hearings. He doesn’t think the House has the authority to appropriate funds. He thinks it is his right to spend whatever he wants and if he doesn’t get his way, he makes an emergency rule. He incites violence by his talk against Democrats, churches, muslims, etc. He sits around all day writing on Twitter, watching TV, then writing on Twitter, insulting people. You are not looking at the same President I am. As a Christian I could never vote for Trump.
So Marjorie, you would rather vote for Hillary who advocates abortion & gay-rights rather than Trump. Your “guide” is supposed to be simply: “what would Jesus do?” Your logic for never voting for Trump proves either you are NOT a Christian at all, OR you are happy to be a HYPOCRITE CHRISTIAN. Wake up!!
War is War
The truth is that many Christian believers were disturbed by Donald Trumps manner and speech. As a public figure for several decades he was a “known quantity” and yet once he became a Republican candidate for President he became a “hater,bigot,and misogynist”?
Donald Trump was not running for saint of America. He was flawed as an individual and as a candidate, but he is from a generation that loved America! Though America was never a Christian nation it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles that have made us the greatest country the world has ever known.
Mr. Trump embodied that brash, love of country and capitalism that nurtured his success in business and life. He is like many of the Old Testament character’s that the author must have forgotten about. He also represented for many Christians a chance to slow the slide of our country into “one world socialism”. His work ethic stresses achievement and accountability. He’s not going to try and put prayer back in the schools, like some might want, but he will appoint constitutional grounded judges to the Supreme Court, and that is a big deal!
He may be a man who is full of himself, but at least he is a man who is not afraid of what others think of him. He may not like it and will probably retaliate but he is fearless and we don’t see people like that in politics much.
Christians who voted for and will support President Trump are God loving patriots who want what’s best for their country. They know that it doesn’t matter much what a person says, but what they do that matters. Donald Trumps heart is in the right place when he says he wants to make America Great again. Don’t you?
William L. Ingram/Author
They hate in Christ’s name. They’re racists in Christ’s name. They’re smugly pius in Christ’s name. Fortunately for them, there ain’t no hell except the one they’re creating right here in your own smugly Christian town. You wrote too much. God-loving patriots? Hahahhahahaha
I was interested, but I got only a short way into the comments and already saw so many that moved in a spirit opposite our Lord, that is opposing 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, that I decided I will have to wait on the understanding as well.
Restore us, O God; make your face to shine on us, that we may be saved. (From Psalms 80)
It is quite simple – the “Christians” of today are the same pharisees of Jesus’ day, not true Christians.
There are a couple of anthropology studies of today’s self-proclaimed evangelical Christians that concluded that they care more about the cultural sense of “being Christian” than about actually following the faith. Hence, they are able to make excuses for a sexual predator, scam artist, serial liar, racist, and promotor of hate and division in order to get what they want.
Neither Trump or Clinton should have been elected as Pres.
Yes. You are right about that.
All 5 “Questions” crumble with one answer…”It’s about life”, Corey. How can any authentic Christian even ask these type questions? You are clearly a Hillary supporter with her desire to advance the murder of innocent children, up to and beyond birth. So the real and only legitimate Question for Christians is “How can any Christian be a Democrat?” You can’t. Corey, go crawl back under your rock.
I guess you are not concerned with the admonition not to bear false witness. Hillary has NEVER had a desire to advance murder of innocent children, but Trump has already killed several at the border. I know facts won’t make a difference to you, but I’ll just end with a fact anyway in case it makes you wonder. When Hillary became a U.S. Senator, two right wing self-proclaimed Christians/ Senators including Sen. Brownback wrote her letters of apology stating that (after getting to know her) she was nothing like their party’s propaganda promoted.
You PROVE yourself to be pathetically ignorant of Hillary in your post & lamely note a mere 2 deaths at the border, which Trump had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH!! Hillary advocates abortion & gay-rights, BOTH of which are abominations before God which many men & women will stand before God & answer for one day! Planned Parenthood KILLED MILLIONS, & Hillary has traveled the world promoting abortion. WAKE THE HELL UP MAN!!
Benjamin,
Can’t help wondering if you just might be related to Professor Irwin Corey. Even without the good-natured sarcasm you left out, there’s a hint of the delightful and goofy wisdom of the good professor who often started one of his comedic lecture-rants with “However!” and a definite pause, before continuing. He was always coming out of nowhere in dispensing humor and wisdom.
I stopped at Corey’s 3rd reason. What can I say, he’s another snowflake who hangs the rainbow flag above the stars and stripes.
Corey, you pretend to be an intellectual, an idealist, when you’re just another democrat agitator.
What’s the progressive Catholics’ current position on abortion, selling aborted baby tissue, unlimited immigration, welfare, and islam? Let me guess, you approve?
Patheos is pathetic.
1. Catholics stupidly are against aborting 2 cells, saying 2 cells is a baby
2. It is against the law to sell aborted baby parts. Catholics are against it.
3. Unlimited immigration? Stupid, doesn’t deserve an answer. Go to Stormtrooper for an answer.
4. Welfare? Catholics do a bit, but some, just like you, prefer to see children and grannies starve because Christ hates them, or something.
5. Islam? Some Catholics, just like you, are so afraid of your own shadow that they, thanks to your fat boy prez, wish evil on Islam, just like your God does. I bet you don’t approve. I bet you are a Christian.
I would like to see those of us who care about evidence-based truth distinguish between “right-wing evangelical Christians and what Rev. Jim Wallis calls “red letter Christians”. (I’m the latter.) I taught with a Muslim professor years ago who was as deeply concerned about the right wing radicals in her faith as I am in mine. My opinion is that it might make your post stronger. Thanks for correcting some of the “noise” though.
My wonderful father used to tell me, if you have to name-call to win an argument, you are in a weak position and have already lost.
They will know we are Christians by our politics? NOT!
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2016/08/18/they-will-know-we-are-christians-by-our-politics-rjs/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=email_this&utm_source=email
Dr Corey, I agree with everything you have said in this article. Yes,I can never vote for Trump, but now I can never vote for Hillary either. She and the DNC platform have gone from Pro-Choice (which I could accept) to Pro-Abortion (which I cannot accept). What’s an independent Pro-life person to do?? I’m writing in John Kasich, Pro-Life governor of Ohio. “Vote your conscience” as Ted Cruise said.
1 John 3:17 says it all.
I agree Trump isn’t the best of choices, but with Hillary being the other option… Her actions have time & time again proven that her morals fall short. How about we quit picking those who speak eloquently and say everything we want to hear with the devil’s tongue?
MY COMMENT for below, ALL OF you, I do not just post anything, or forward, nor is my mind made up. YET everyone gets a fair ride not just those who have an entire”Political Career with attachments behind them.
AND how about Mr. Clinton, disbarred as an Attorney, An IMPEACHED PRESIDENT, womanizer, proven!! and…
and now, how about you AMERICANS I know it’s not a pretty poem, picture and so on Important for a restful mind.
AMERICA IS in a war, we all must PAY ATTENTION, investigate not just accept!
I confess that I did not read the “Five Serious Questions” for Christians who support Donald Trump. I am not saying who I support but I will ask a few SERIOUS QUESTIONS FOR Hilliary Clinton Supporters. ! A True Christian honors the words written forth in The Bible, true or not? A True Christian does not commit, support nor follow any person or persons who PURPOSELY commit Murder true or not? A true Christian does not support in any manner Chosen Abortion, unless the Mothers life is in critical jeopardy, choosing her life over the life of the child, or the fetus is critically malfunctioned in some manner whereas the sustainability of the child born is negative). A TRUE CHRISTIAN woeful;d not support ant Person who openly supports any form of abortion even the abortions simple for the HARVEST of ALL PARTS of the UN BORN CHILD, NOT FETUS! A true Christian does not purposely consider a Person Honest or reliable when the facts SHOW Mrs. Clinton factually has used her office for her own Political Agenda, has On occasion after occasion lied to The American Public regarding her email’s, deletion of and use of. A true Christian would not support Mrs. Clinton as she will not hold herself accountable for the lives lost, our Soldiers murdered in the Benghazi TERRORIST ATTACT. LAST but certainly NOT LEAST “A True Christian” will not find themselves infatuated with MEDIA FRENZIE’S who HAVE their own agenda’s, who have been in past could be now UNDER THE INFLUENCE of Political Persons. A True Christian will use their MINDS not EMOTIONS to find out the actual facts, not MEDIA FEEDS into their ‘brains’.. If you are only interested in slamming Mr. Trump, I suggest you get into the MODE of research. Mrs. Clinton is somehow enjoying her ability to manipulate, to bypass Juridical Prosecution, always call Mr. Trump Dishonest on and on. WHAT ABOUT HER try the Freedom of Information Act, she falls under its pursue, she is OUR EMPLOYEE, you are not a minion you have a brain. USE IT. Stop following a career Political Disaster, never has held a REAL JOB, NEVER, look up her early career as an Attorney, Twelve year old little girl raped by a 47 yr man. LOOK UP the trial and what she did to that poor little girl under questioning, she got the rapist off by the way the little girl “asked for it” this was over twenty yrs bad. LOOK INSIDE HER CLOSET FIRST then open your mouth , forward links.
The answer, as I see it is that those people are CINO’s. (Christian In Name Only).
Politics trumps religion (pun unavoidable). Maybe more so for conservatives, at least when it comes to the meeting the needs of the poorest among us, as Jesus’ apostles did.
As usual in politics, the tu quoque logical fallacy is invoked in response to any criticism of the candidate whom you support. Instead of addressing the points in the criticism, the responder typically says something about the opposing candidate instead, usually to the effect of,”yeah, but your candidate is worse.” Another logical fallacy used in these types of arguments is to assume that if you are critical of one candidate, you must automatically support the other. I believe both HRC and Trump willfully disregard Christian ethics, so I support neither of them.
And 5 question for Christians who
support hillary
1: Should you really be
supporting a known unrepentant war hawk who you well know will continue to
wreak havoc in the middle east (I guess it is not YOUR ass being bombed so why
care??)
2: Can you support a candidate
who main interests are to serve the economic and social elite who have paid for
her campaign.
3: Should you really be
supporting someone who did not respect the democratic system to win the primary
– do you really think they will behave democratically in their presidency.
4: Should you vote for a woman
who has a long history of threatening and silencing women who are sexual abuse victims
. (not a champion for women hey?)
5: A known criminal, who behaved
recklessly with classified information jeopardising the security of the people
and then persistently lied about it, especially lying to the FBI when every
other citizen would go to prison for said same behaviour. (“Character counts”
remember?)
6: Would Jesus encourage you to
vote for someone – knowing all the above (especially point 1) simply because
they are the perceived lesser of two evils? Or would he tell you to vote third
party because that is the right thing to do!
Ie: Would he tell you “Call Nero ‘Lord’ because you have no
choice….Calling Me (Jesus) Lord will make life really difficult for you all?
Vote third party and stop this monopoly of evil
I am average, in having no ivy-league or seminary background, in the average career leaders can be blunt and exaggerated, this is not something foreign to average people. A good trait. is to keeping ones word, and without the benefit of all your tabloid quality knowledge I said, if he could win the Republican nomination he has my support and I gave him my primary vote. As far as Trumps past, God leads his children alone or personally from within, and the length of time for his seed to sprout or if he even makes it, I can only say that he has my support and hope. As far as questioning prisoners, this world has nations with established rules and terrorist hiding behind family or civilians will not stop lawmen with just cause.
This election has made me realize just how glad I am to be Anabaptist. Everyone screaming that their side is right, ignoring that they are yelling about different sides of the same coin, but neither side is compatible w/ Christian teaching.
Unfortunately, on #3 Hillary is actually WORSE than Trump on this issue. I hate them both, if we’re going with the ‘lesser of two evils’ I’d rather have someone who is at least willing to entertain the idea that we should cut back on our militarism(even if he is inconsistent on this point), than someone who calls him evil for doing so. Especially when she has a history of instigating unjust wars.
To Keninmo: That’s a pathetic response. How can recalling Christians to the words the founder, Jesus, be “masquerading as a Christian?” You need to explore your own heart. Jesus would be appalled by Donald Trump. Why aren’t you?
I just have one question for Trump supporters: why do you think he will be an *effective* president?
According to Tony Schwartz, the man who ghost-wrote The Art of the Deal for Trump, the man who wants to become the leader of the free world “has no attention span” and fidgeted “like a kindergartener who can’t sit still in a classroom” when Schwartz tried to interview him. Schwartz had to shadow the man for eighteen months just to get the book done. And that’s the man we should trust with our country’s nuclear codes?
Hilary’s no saint, but at least she can focus on something for more than 15 minutes.
EDIT: I’ve waited a day and nobody’s tried to answer my question! Come on, can someone at least try?
EDIT2: Two days and still no answer! C’mon! C’moooon!
EDIT3: Four days and still nothing. C’mooooooooooooooon!
And yet you somehow don’t have any “serious questions” about supporting Hillary Clinton. Go figure. Another Progressive hypocrite masquerading as a “Christian”. Tell me, oh-so-concerned-“Christian” — how do you blindly support the Progressive agenda that has as it’s core principle the unqualified and unrestricted support for abortion on demand, which is in diametrical opposition to the teachings of the Bible? Oh, I forgot, your “Christian principles” are only valid when they are against Republican positions, but are conveniently jettisoned when they conflict with your Progressive political agenda. Got it.
Since the author wrote an article recently on judging I am surprised he and others want to judge other Christians so harshly. To disagree is one thing, to condemn is another.
I think of Ben Carson as a very intelligent Christian man. Way above average intelligence. I was surprised when he endorsed Trump after some of the things that were said.
However, I think he sees the issues clearly. And one thing he has experienced that many of us never will. He knows him personally.
Treat you brothers as family.
How do I follow your page?
Spending about forty-five minutes listening to a
local contemporary Christian channel on my car radio while running errands, it
suddenly dawned on me why so many evangelicals are flocking to Donald Trump, in
spite of his multiple marriages and flings, his ethically-challenged business
practices, and his lack of a solid foundation in the Bible—and indeed, in most
of the issues surrounding contemporary Christian theology.
These evangelical Christians are flocking to Donald Trump because, like the
post-lapsarian world they so fervently believe in—a “fallen world” rife (as
they see it) with homosexuality, abortion, sexual adventurism, and pervasive
secularism—Donald Trump, who wants to “Make America Great Again,” embraces a
post-lapsarian view of the United States, as “fallen” from its one-time
greatness that it presumably had only about thirty years ago, when Ronald
Reagan reigned supreme right up there with Jesus and Jerry Falwell.
If you’ve ever taken the time (and pain, since this genre of music is numbingly
boring both lyrically and melodically) to listen to contemporary Christian
music, a not atypical song begins with a description of how horrible and fallen
the world we live in is—the familiar theme, no doubt, that evangelical
Christians hear from their ministers every Sunday—of a world that going to hell
in an handbasket. Here is one recent song, “The Ship Is Going Down,” by a group
called Attalus, that begins with this apocalyptic, millenarian theme:
“This sleeping city’s going down tonight / The tempest will swallow us
before we open up our eyes / But we tell ourselves that we’ll be safe inside /
Oh no – don’t tell me you believed the lies.”
Donald Trump has taken that post-lapsarian, doom-and-gloom view of the world
and applied it specifically to the United States (to “America”). And it has hit
a chord with evangelicals, who, in spite of what the word “evangelical”
connotes, see nothing but end times and hellfire for the United States. THAT is
the dark message Donald Trump is tapping into. The only difference is that
Trump has replaced “the Enemy,” as Christian fundamentalists like to call
Satan, with just about anyone with brown skin or anyone who is Muslim.
New Rule: You cannot support Donald Trump and claim to be a Christian because you are not. In fact, if you support Donald Trump and claim to be a Christian, you’re committing blasphemy. And blasphemers receive this punishment according to the Book:
Leviticus 24:10-16
13 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 14 “Bring out of the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. 16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
Well Jimmy Carter qualifies according to the article. Except he was a poor President. Nice guy but a poor president.
I do not agree with Trumps words, BUT I am not a fan of hilary and her lies. not only that, but Bible also states women are not to be over men… I am saved,I try to live the best life according to God that I can.and I can NOT in good conscious vote for hilary… I’m not sure Trump is the right one either,,, but at
least with trump, we can hope his VP and the rest of His committe can help.one thing, trump does not believe in abortion, he does not believe in gay marriage…I try to look at the whole picture, and neither one are the best, so you pray about, and pray for them, that who ever is elected, God can lead,,, at this point, I’m saying trump, and praying for him and his team.
I denounce that Hillary Clinton is forcing the Dominican Republic to fuse with Haiti. The strategy are accuse the Dominican Republic with the human Rights, United Nations, OAS, Amnisty International in order to accuse the Dominican Rep. They want to create a chaos, a civil war between these countries. Clinton use the Clinton Foundation to collect funds not for the haitians, for her own puckets. The Hillary’s brother have the haitians’s mine gold. They want to create a big CIVIL WAR.
If i endorse a person to do a job, even a very important job why does that become some kind of faith challenge? I work with many people who are not believers. That does not preclude them from having tangible skill sets. That also doesnt preclude me from living my life in accordance with my beliefs. I support Trump because of his ability, because he may bring change. I believe that Jesus has taught me that when i start excluding people based on my judgement of their morals i have begun doing his job. The Bible is replete with example after example of God using non believers for the good of the believers. When did He lose that ability? I don’t care for a lot of Trumps failings and pray for him as i do others. His experience and skillset comparative to other viable candidates is the point of difference. I pray that he surrounds himself with people better than himself and that God continues to bless our country.
What an idiotic article. The answer is simple- the alternative is FAR WORSE.
My sentiments exactly, Ben.
When did Jesus Christ get angry? It was always at hypocrisy! Trump redefines hypocrisy and anyone supporting him ought not call himself “christian.”
Questions 5 and 4 are the same. It’s a good point. We should care about the type of conversation that comes out of someone’s mouth. However there’s no way that either of these things should be the defining issue on which a decision between two candidates is made. I’m grown. I know that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The fact that he’s more candid about his faults does not equate to those running against him having none. #3 represents a Disney view of an evil world. No president in the history of time has taken a “love our enemies” approach. Just because they want to kill people differently than Trump doesn’t make them better than Trump. #2 This question assumes that every voter feels/felt the same way about Clinton. Also what a president does in office is much more scrutinized than what he’s done before. It’s also an interesting question given that the only other option at the moment is to allow Clinton back in. #1 Is not a real question. So these 5 really good question are actually only 3 not so good questions. I’m not even a Trump supporter. However if it’s between him and Clinton I’ll vote for him. It does make me sad that this is what we’ve come to in America. I’ve heard he made a decision to follow Christ. I have no idea if that’s true but all things are possible with God. BTW these questions are so bad that this may be intended as a joke. If so may bad.
The vast majority of evangelicals don’t support Trump: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/march-web-only/actually-most-evangelicals-dont-vote-trump.html
Trump keeps his Slovene Communist wife well hidden and shows his blonde “all American” daughter instead. I wonder how many know that Melania Trump was raised in Slovenia as the daughter of a prominent Communist official? Conservative’s choice for First Lady of the United States is an atheist immigrant who can barely speak English.
But she lies good.
And she also bore him a child out of wedlock.
God has used many people for his glory — and not always Christians either. Saul / Paul comes to mind??? Hmmm ??? We are ALL sinners You can’t point a finger at Trump,, because you are a sinner as well. A sin is a sin. Your sin is as equal as Trump’s. As far as his mouth? Maybe God wants to change his heart, and being the POTUS is a BIG responsibility – for someone other than BO (it was no responsibility for him). He played and vacationed. He was a loser failure. But for someone who wants to put America First, and is fighting the elitist establishment NWO, it will take someone with the guts and boldness and outspokeness of Trump to see it through and not cower. A weenie like BO could NEVER face Putin! BO just bows to all our enemies. And we need someone who can give our allies the security they need again. America needs the type of security Trump can give us. When you realize how many people hate him, then you know you’re voting for the right man!
It blows my mind how people can twist and contort the Scripture to rationalize voting for someone like Trump. Trump is not Paul. Paul, when he embraced Christ, turned from the life he had been living. Trump said he has never sought forgiveness. Yes, we are all sinners, but that doesn’t mean we should blindly follow a fearmongering sinner simply because he sins in ways you find more acceptable. Heck, your opening sentences could easily be used to rationalize voting for Hillary. She’s a sinner. God uses many people for His glory, so why not Hillary?
Everything you rattled off is in defense of man’s empire, and does nothing to further Christ’s Kingdom here on earth.
Wow, what a persecution complex you have. (Vote for the guy everyone hates– he must be right!)
You do realize that Trump not only will not “face” Putin. He likes Putin.
Trump insisted the GOP remove a plank from their platform that promised to sell arms to the Ukrainians so that they could resist Putin.
If you’re looking for security from Trump, you’re a bigger fool than you sound like.
This is a worthwhile question. There is no doubt that Mr. Trump promotes many policies that are the opposite of Christian. I’m going to start with a statement you may find counter-intuitive: I intend to vote for Mr. Trump, but do not intend to support him.
The calculation goes like this: Both Mr. Trump and Secretary Clinton are likely to seek to do grave evils. (For example, I expect Secretary Clinton to continue President Obama’s program of murder by drone, and his policy of requiring Catholic religious to formally cooperate with evil.) Secretary Clinton’s evil initiatives will be supported by at least 80% of the press, and no less than 50% of Congress. And she will likely be able to buy off most of the remaining opposition with no more than $2M of pork barrel spending, each. By contrast, Mr. Trump’s evil initiatives will be opposed by at least 80% of the press, and as much as 80% of Congress. Because much of this opposition is fueled by personal detestation and loathing, I expect it to be much harder to buy off. Furthermore, I expect to encourage my elected representatives in Congress to oppose Mr. Trump’s various evil initiatives.
Another example of calculation: Former journalist John C. Wright regards the power of the press as the gravest threat facing our civilization and culture today. His intention to vote for Mr. Trump is due to Trump clearly having no fear of the press, and possibly being able to break its power. He regards many of the things which are held against Mr. Trump as deliberately deceptive constructions of the press, and he has an insider’s understanding of how such impressions are created.
Now, more specifically:
#5. I am convinced that Secretary Clinton is deceitful through and through. She’s smart enough not to insult people in public, but will no doubt carry on the fight to require Catholic religious to violate their religious principles, something which ought to concern you. Mr. Trump’s rudeness will help stifle his ability to do evil.
#4. I make no excuse for Mr. Trump’s mouth and objectification of women. The latter is echoed in the behavior of President Kennedy, and President Bill Clinton — behavior that his wife readily enabled in order to gain power.
#3. See above regarding the current policy of murder by drone, likely to continue. I oppose nearly all foreign wars.
#2. President Bush and Senator Dole both had more character than President Clinton. I can readily imagine supporting an impeachment of Mr. Trump, should he take office. The same would go for Secretary Clinton, but I think it is far less likely that anyone would try to hold her accountable for her actions.
#1. I regard Mr. Trump as the lesser of the two evils, largely because I believe he will be far more hampered in his pursuit of evil policies than will Secretary Clinton.
More violence from the Stalinist left trying to shut down a Trump rally.
An old man punches an obnoxious protester at a Trump Rally, and the liberal media uses it to trash the Trump campaign, and people on this site condemn it. The left have violent riots after violent riot at the Trump rallies, and no one on this hypocritical lef on this site condemns it.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-gop-convention-htmlstory.html
The US is not Israel or the Kingdom of God, so being a Christian is not a prerequisite of office. Furthermore I have met many principled hard working people in my life that were not Christian, and many a slack Christian who welched off others and said nice churchy things to look good. That being said, DJT is a hard working successful businessman, who does not drink, smoke, or do any kind of drugs. Works 17 hours a day and loves our nation. He is crass, all male, and yes has had a salty word or two. The REAL issue Dr. Corey is this: There is a battle for the soul of the US. It is being assaulted by socialist globalists on the left and neocon sell out one-worlders on the right. Trump aint in the club,..even with all the rough edges he is not a sell-out. There is no way I would vote for someone who travels around with a weird Mormon and is married to a former CFR operative. Cruz is a fraud I don’t care how many times he says he loves Jesus and the constitution. He is creepy, strange, and a congenital liar…and more than likely an adulterer. He is surrounded by the Bush family, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, and other establishment hacks that are not nationalists. They are proven globalists with a apparent moral character, much like Bush 1( ex-cia and “new-world order fame ) and Bush 2 ( your with us or the terrorists, ), Dick Cheney, John McCain, etc. these are godless men who are using the US as a command base for global dominance. Trump ain’t in that club, and Im afraid Count Chocula has been compromised and is just another politician who will go along to get along.
I have been voting for presidents since 1972. I will vote on election day in November, but there is a good chance that I may have to leave the president choice blank. There are over 300 million people in this country and it should be easy to find good candidates out of that many. I don’t get it.
Another example of why people shun Christianity. Straight judgement. If you think a candidate exists that’s anywhere near Christ-like, you’re in denial. But go ahead and keep spreading the sanctimonious Christianspeak. That’s what Jesus would do.
5.FDR was much more evil than Trump could ever be. He permanently
saddled America with the income tax, the social security tax, and the corporate tax, but hey, he never cussed in public
4 Perhaps we should be more concerned about those who perform or advocate abortions. Trump has taken a definite pro-life stand
3 Either we are total pacifists or we are not. If your family and mine were having lunch at a popular restaurant together with many other patrons, I would hope the government would take any and all steps necessary to prevent the terrorist attack
2 Trump’s course language has been less than 1% of his total words spoken
Clinton had oral sex in the Oval Office. Big difference
1 Liberals like yourself will alway use condescending and demeaning language whenever they are afraid of losing an argument because they do not know how to use convincing logic to win an argument
from bill morgan
I was going to write a reply, but when I was checking for the scripture references I wanted to to quote, I found this. He said it very well and will save me the time of writing something similar. “Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees “fools,
hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes,” and many such epithets. Jesus called them “hypocrites” seven times in one chapter.” Quoted from: http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm Finally, in the book of Revelation, God will let his opinion about man’s transgressions and sins come in a full-blown judgement. The idea that Jesus is soft and sweet all the time is not a scriptural one. Telling the truth is not a crime. Oh, and Jesus also said this. “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and
land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold
more the child of hell than yourselves.” What would the media say about that today? He also took a scourge of cords and threw the money-changers out of the temple. We need to do the same with the Federal Reserve.
Do you vote for Killery Killinton who betrays our people and lets them die? She can still be held accountable for treason with her email server. Do you vote for Democrats who push the homosexual agenda and killing babies? What are our options? Biblically speaking, since you have gone there…how many cities have been destroyed for killing babies and homosexuality compared to how many cities and people destroyed for mean-spirited potty mouths? Ah, yes, abortion is the same as “passing the children under the fire” as the Bible states how God hates child sacrificing…how many Dems and Libs allow laws for us to “sacrifice” our children? Oh, wait…it’s not the same…blending children and selling baby parts is not the same as fire I suppose…and sacrificing children to the devil isn’t the same as sacrificing children for a career, better pay, freedom, financial reward, a better body, no stretch marks, bad timing, no responsible man…etc etc. I rather vote for a potty mouth than abominations. How many families and babies died in the Bible when God said wipe everyone out? How many children and women died when fire and brimstone burned everyone alive in Sodom and Gomorrah? Of course I don’t approve of everything Trump does, he’s human. But I approve of him more than the leftist’s agenda to disarm us, make men feminine, make women manly, stick our babies in blenders and sell their body parts, and make drug safe-houses providing a clean environment with clean needles and Dr. supervision so we can help them if they accidentally O.D.
I prefer obnoxious behavior over murderous baby killers and homosexual agendas any day. With an obnoxious president, yeah, we may have more enemies and we may even go to war….but it’s a war against men and not a complete wiping off the map by going to war against God.
For the first time, I’m truly not happy with any of our options, but I pick the lesser of evils, that is Republican, even if it is Trump.
Now wants to punish women who have abortions….or does he?
I think it has to do with deep-seated racism.
The bible treats women worse than trump does
There is too much talk about God and highly-religious Christianity in politics right now, Glenn Beck is making much the same points as your post here in his “you can’t be a Christian and support Donald Trump” stump speeches – even saying Evangelicals are not listening to their God. Beck invoked the Book of Mormon in Utah and how Mormon priesthood holders (read almost all Mormon men) are going to “save the constitution” by rejecting Trump and supporting Cruz – the nation hangs by a thread and the Mormon do-gooders are riding in on their white horses to save the day. Mormonism and Pentecostalism seem to be mixing quite well – and the brew they are coming up with is far less appealing than a local craft beer. Some commenters on political sites are warning about “not drinking the kool-aid” when Beck starts passing it around. I did not vote for Trump in my primary — but all the religious talk against him is close to persuading me I should have.
I also just went to your Facebook page, and the first thing I see is you getting a tattoo. So, you are going to stand in judgment of Trump for his speech, yet you are tattooing yourself, which is also a contradiction to the Bible? Be careful sir, when you stand before the world, and preach. You are cautioning us against Trump for what comes out of his mouth, yet, you are not so guarded with your own. At the very least, Trump admits he has no filter on his mouth. He is honest with himself, and the world. Are you?
Benjamin, is the Bible not also FULL of stories of God taking a sinner and using him towards His glory? Did not Jesus show us the way, the truth and the light, is through Him? Are we also, as Christians, taught not to judge? Your article is FAR from a Christian standpoint, and shows a complete lack of teaching what Jesus came and died for. You, sir, are like the Pharisees standing to stone the prostitute to death, and then Jesus asks “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” I am surprised you are standing there casting stones at Trump. We ALL fall short of the glory that is God, and NONE of us is without flaw or blemish. God can use Trump as readily as anyone. Shame on you for using your Christianity in politics.
Didn’t read them all, but I read many of the push back comments. Not a single one of them spoke to any of your questions. Not a single one of them actually spoke in support of Trump. Every one of them spoke only in the context of how horrible the current administration or current DNC candidates are.
This is both heartening and disheartening. On the plus side, they’re not REALLY supporting Trump. On the minus side, they have fatalistically decided to go for the mess of pottage.
I’m not a Trump supporter. However, we’re slowly losing other options.
What I want to point out is that the author has not done his research fully. SOME of the points in the article are correct. Some are incorrect.
For example, he never said he would kill family members of terrorists. That was an interpretation… and was specifically denied by Trump within 24 hours of his original “I’d go after them” statement. But you didn’t hear that in the mainstream media, did you. Check it out: Bill O’Reilly did an interview with him the day after his original statement; the interview was shown a day after that. Trump specifically explained what he did mean (he would tear down homes, similar to Israeli policy), and also specifically said that he couldn’t go there when asked if he would be willing to kill terrorist families.
The real issue, AFAIK, is that any R candidate is considered far better than any D candidate. Our country suffers from huge and possibly intractable problems. Among them:
– We have spent ourselves into oblivion, and promised even more for the future. Here’s how bad it is: we could take ALL the income and ALL the wealth of every household earning $100k or more (that might include you!)… which is the top 20% in the nation. Invest that money just to pay for promises already made. and all that is not close to enough to cover the cost.
– We no longer have effective borders nor an effective understanding of Islam. Latest global Pew survey: 1/4 of Muslims worldwide agree with the terrorists. That’s a minority to be sure. It’s also hundreds of millions of people.
Just those two very real issues alone are enough for a LOT of people to be adamant that we need a major change in Washington. And anyone who does not vote in such a way as to effect that change, is supporting the status quo.
This is not an election where I can afford the luxury of voting for a non-winning candidate who lets me crow about sticking to my principles. Doing so is actually selfish: I’d be voting for a vanity candidate to let me feel good and make my friends proud… while simultaneously helping ensure that someone far worse is elected.
“The real issue, AFAIK, is that any R candidate is considered far better
than any D candidate.” That is indeed what is driving much of the
support for Trump.
However important “saving the country” is (and I think it’s important), I think the point of this thread (and MY “real issue”) is, “What are a Christian’s priorities?”
Saving the country is not at the top of my list. Bearing witness to Christ (and by extension, to Christian behavior) IS at the top of my list. Maybe it will fall on deaf ears, but …
I dislike the alternatives, but I cannot stand before God and in any way
justify voting for evil. I’m not responsible for the results of the
election, but I AM responsible for what I do.
I don’t so much care about language as what the president actually does.
The author seems worried about curse words. What the hell? You want me to worry about curse words when my options are so limited by having to wonder about people who are morally capable of removing the right of others to defend themselves (which I equate to murder), or lying to the public about their motives for going to war in which over a million people will die? If you supported Bush, don’t talk to me about war crimes, I don’t want to hear it.
The bottom line is that the establishment needs to go. If anyone is available to get rid of them, sign me up.
I give up! lol, Poltics is a hot topic.
Worth 3 minutes 1:03-3:30 Nice thoughts.
The entire 1 hour interview is very good as well. If it bothers you that he is a Catholic, he is a born again Catholic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj8xr86k0l8
A juvenile president? How could you get more juvenile than Obama? I hear so many reasons to not vote for Trump such as he was a movie star (so was Reagan and one of the very best presidents ever). He uses bad language, I know very few Christians who have not used bad language, he has had three wives, at least he married his women! No one could hardly top Clinton’s moral decay of the country with his Oval office antics. Trump is a good father and employer, I haven’t heard of anyone being dissatisfied working for him. Then is is brought up that his University has a D rating but, they fail to acknowledge that that rating has been brought up to an A, why? because he fixed the problem. I know very few businesses that do not have problems – the fact, he addressed them and improved them. Most businessmen have failed three, four or more times and have to rebuild and try again and each time learning what not to do. Sometimes failing is a problem of the economy. The media hits Trump hard about immigration and that Trump thinks Mexicans are criminals. He is not racist and he does not think all Mexicans are criminals, he thinks illegal Mexicans are criminals, and they are, Illegal is criminal. The following are the reasons I stand with Donald Trump 100%, He will stand up for Israel and Christians. Build a wall between Mexico and the US and enforce legal immigration, not illegal. He will deport illegals which is the right thing to do. Put taxes on imports which should have never been taken off in the first place. Cut taxes to help businesses and citizens, deal with Iran and Isis. See that we get paid to protect other countries, which is as it should be, overturn executive orders, dismantle Iran’s global network, getting rid of Obamacare and replacing it with a better health care program that will actually be affordable., stop Islamics from coming to our country till we know for sure that they are not terrorists or Isis related, build up our military, which should have been done a long time ago. Work on paying down our national debt, which current administration has spent more than the last four ever did, take care of veterans, protect our 2nd amendment rights, secure social security and pensions that working people have worked for all their lives, get ride of ridiculous subjects in schools and really educate our people. Donald Trump is not racist, he is self funded, does not owe anyone anything, is a patriot, family man, pro life and a Christian. He has common and financial sense and a sense of justice and wants to clean up and fix the wrongs in America.
“He uses bad language, I know very few Christians who have not used bad
language, he has had three wives, at least he married his women!”
At least he married his women?
He married three of them, the latter two being relationships started while he was still married to their predecessors. At his own admission, he’s had multiple affairs with married women, and multiple relationships with other women. Yet, he’s only married three.
“Trump bragged about his sex life in his book “The Art of the Comeback,”
writing: “If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often
seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a
guaranteed best-seller.””http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/ben-sasse-donald-trump-affairs-salesman-iowa/
So perhaps you may want to rethink this quote of yours being a selling point on Trump’s character?
to be fair to the isis thing yes i want a diplomatic soloution and yes just bombing them isn’t going to fix things long term but their not open to peace talks and we have to keep them from causing more tragedies sometimes you have to resort to barbaric tactics yes it’s horrible but things suck sometimes that being said i don’t support trump and i don’t think he can fix america
As a Trump supporter, I’ll take a crack at it.
Nothing you listed has anything to do with whether or not Trump will make a good President. Much of the evangelical/conservative criticisms of Trump are priggish and are a stellar case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
Jimmy Carter was a moral, upright Christian Baptist, but awful President.
George W. Bush is a born-again Christian but launched us into a Middle East quagmire which has cost an untold amount of lives and left Iraq more of a mess than it was before (along with opening the way for the persecution of Christians there).
There are things worse than curse words, such as useless Neocon wars and regime change, and doing jack squat while working class jobs get shipped overseas (or thinking that’s just fine because it adheres to “conservative principles”).
I support Trump because he has common sense when it comes to foreign policy and thus doesn’t sound like he’s ready to start WW III (see Marco Rubio), and is fighting for the working class. That’s what I expect and want a politician to do.
I’m not nominating Trump for canonization and I look to the Saints for role models, not politicians (although I don’t believe Trump as President will have the scandals that, say, Bill Clinton did while in office).
thanks for your candidness and honesty.
Don’t get me wrong. I hope Cruz wins the nomination, but that’s looking unlikely. Therefore, it’s Trump vs. Hillary. Trump is a egotistical man. Everyone and his mother knows that. What does Hillary offer though? Gay marriage? That’s completely against Christianity. Egalitarianism? That’s completely against Christianity. Virtually unlimited abortion? That’s completely against Christianity. Anti-God rhetoric (she wants to take God out of the public sphere)? That’s completely against Christianity. Those are just the moral issues. Do you want me to vote for Hillary? I hope not. I’d rather drag a cheese grater across my face. Do you want me to vote for the independent party? I might as well stick my ballot in a blender and drink it. It’d get more use that way since it’d give me some fiber before being useless. You can’t say, “You can’t be Christian and vote for Trump” without presenting an alternative.
And so who would you vote for, out of the 4 left? They all have their sins. He without sin cast the first stone.
Not convinced yet to vote for Trump but I believe I can easily answer these questions. My view of DT is based on his Myers-Briggs typology ESTP which means to me that his words are fluid and do not carry weight. Rather his words are about blowing off steam; hyperbole and a “dance” with others. I am much more offended when someone like Cruz or Rubio, who have serious personalities try to emulate him in this for they are off tune. Answering Donald back is preposterous. https://www.16personalities.com/estp-personality
I don’t think people are letting their religion influence them when the support Trump. Just anger and fear and the desire to get revenge on the whole country for whatever in their lives they are not happy with.
The way i see it it is religious minds and religious spirits that ask these questions–Those that hear and follow the voice of the Lord know what HE is saying at this time and those that accuse and condemn are just a disobedient religious spirit–prayers with and for them
Reich makes some really interesting
points that are very relevant to the American political climate in his book the Mass Psychology of Facism.
Basically, Reich states that fascism rose so quickly in Germany because
of several continuous generations of sexual repression, which led to a
mass psychological yearning for authoritarianism. I’ve been thinking
about this in terms of the middle east, but now I see it in my own
country.
https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_Mass_Psychology_of_Fascism&h=bAQHItjkt
I’m not the first person to point this out, but I’m not the least bit surprised that Trump is so popular among Evangelical Christians. The things that he’s saying are exactly in line with the message that they have been putting out for decades. The racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and warmongering are perfect reflection of Evangelical values. Heck, Trump was a big name in the whole racist Obama birther thing. He’s been endorsed by the biggest names among Evangelicals. Of course, Cruz and Rubio are just as bad, but Trump is only saying out loud what Evangelicals have been saying for years.
When people are hungry they will follow Jesus or they will follow Hitler. I’m just not sure what Americans are hungry for? Have you noticed that politicians run on the promise of change. People always want what they don’t have. I wonder what 5 questions we could write for any Christian who hopes that any politician is going to help usher in the Kingdom. It ain’t gonna happen. The Kingdom comes in spite of politicians not because of them. And as you have suggested, we’re not going to vote for Jesus.
Thank your Benjamin for yet another insightful and telling commentary. I’m reminded of Reverend Robert Cunningham’s refreshing perspective in his article “In Love With Donald Trump” from March 17th:
“What happens when the liturgies of our greedy culture train evangelicals to love money and power? What happens when the liturgies of talk radio train evangelicals to love anger an paranoia? What happens when the liturgies of social media train evangelicals to love sensational sound bites more than thoughtful discourse? What happens when the liturgies of modern worship services train evangelicals to love novel, flashy, and glib emotional experiences that feel more like a rally than corporate worship? What happens when the conference culture of the church trains evangelicals to love the big celebrity leader? What happens when preaching that prioritizes relevant, shocking, and brash sermons trains evangelicals to love ‘tell it like it is’ ranting? What happens when the liturgies from the days of the Moral Majority train evangelicals to love America as much as Jesus, which then leads to an incessant longing within churches to ‘make America great again’? What happens? Evangelicals in love with Donald Trump happens.”
Will U.S. Evangelicals listen? Let’s look for evidence…
I think for some, they place a dividing line (when it’s convenient) between being a Christian and being the leader of the free world. When it’s someone they think can get the job done, it’s easy to rationalize it and say things like, “he’s running for office, not pastor-in-chief” or “we need someone like him who can get the job done”, etc. It just shows how contradictory we can be at times and it would probably be better if we were all honest about our contradictions rather than try to whitewash our choices be it for president or anything else in which our Christian faith seems to be at conflict.
If folks are truly interested in understanding why people support Trump, I suggest you read the words of actual Trump supporters. Here’s a sampling if you’re interested in doing a bit of reading:
One guy says:
I’m a degreed mathematician doing research and development in cybersecurity, with a growing portfolio of professional publications, and patents pending. I’m a Marine veteran of the Iraq war whose ‘eggs aren’t too scrambled’. I married woman who went to one of the best schools in the UK and graduated with honors from one of the best universities in the US. I truly believe that my wife, my child, and I will be fine no matter who wins this election. But I’m cheering Mr. Trump and planning on voting for him. Read here to find out why: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/readers-read-trump/
Here’s a Christian who won’t be voting for anyone, but who likes Trump: http://charlesfeatherstone.com/wp/?p=2006
Here’s another: http://nypost.com/2016/03/05/why-i-support-trump-and-resent-the-elites-trying-to-destroy-him/
Here are some short letters published by the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/03/secret-donald-trump-voters-speak-out
One more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/02/18/donald-trump-white-working-class-rust-belt-voters-elections-2016-column/80422422/
There are more if anyone’s interested. I recommend reading them if you’re truly interested in what motivates Trump voters. I suspect that the same thing that motivates these people are the things that motivate Christians who support Trump.
I admit that I probably live a in bubble. According to polls, there are a good many Christians who are supporting Donald Trump. I’m not one of them. And, though I hang out with a lot of politically conservative Christians I’ve yet to meet any Christian personally who admits to doing so. I take comfort in the frequency of church attendance of self-identified Christians correlates to less support for Trump (i.e. the more seriously a self-identified Christian takes her faith, the less likely she is to support Trump).
Having said all that, I’m guessing that Christians who support Trump do so for all sorts of reasons. The most positive defense I could possibly give is that, like a lot of non-Christians, they think the current group of politicians running our country aren’t looking out for their interests and are just plain awful. So awful that they’d risk blowing up the system with a megalomaniac like Trump. All elections are choices between the lesser of two or more evils. Perhaps they believe, that Trump, with all his flaws, is the least of all the evils. I don’t know though. The rise of Trump concerns me greatly, but it’s an interesting case study in a lot of things.
Five questions for Christians who support Hillary Clinton
How can you support someone who epitomizes deceitfulness? Only 35% of Americans consider her honest and trustworthy. (On the other hand, 58% think she has good leadership qualities, which might help explain Trump’s popularity – i.e. people can think a person has low moral character while, at the same time, think he or she’d make a good leader.)
How can you support someone who believes bombing our enemies will make us safe and has offered only lame excuses for her vote in support of the disastrous war in Iraq? Clinton, like most candidates, believes that violence is often justified. At a basic level, the difference between her and Trump on the issue of violent force is a matter of degrees.
How can you vote for someone who worked with others to demonize any woman who brought a complaint of sexual harassment or rape against her husband but who now says women who say they were assaulted should be believed? Clinton knows her husband’s ways better than anyone yet she let these women be publicly slandered, including a 20-something year old intern under her husband’s employ.
How can you support someone who believes that abortion is a positive social good, not just something that is sometimes, regrettably, the least bad option and has said that religious beliefs have to be changed to make abortion more acceptable? I understand there are Christians who support abortion rights, but it’s rare I hear a Christian talk about abortion as a positive thing for society.
How can you support a candidate who is so intent on storing up treasures on earth while other people go without? Her net worth is north of $30 million, yet she gets on other people’s case for supposedly not caring enough about the poor. You know what Jesus says about people like that…
Good job speaking out on this. Totally agree!! You can tell the tree by it’s fruit, Trump is a bad fig tree, (even Jesus cursed the fruitless fig tree) and I will also never, EVER vote for him. He is a woman hating, rude, flashy, ego driven, scary as hell bully that is opposite of all the fruits of the spirit , opposite of the beatitudes, opposite of everything Jesus stands for.
I have been watching Mr.Trump for years. He has made a profession of faith, he believes a marriage is between a man and a woman, attends Dr. David Jeremiah’s meetings. You need to remember Jonah, David, Peter, who else does n the bible The Lord can use who he wishes.I have never voted for Pres Obama, but I see it as God used him to awaken the lazy churches and many have awaken to Godly concerns for Christian rights, and a lost world who needs Christ’s unconditional love with Godly boundaries.Have Christians forgot po!itically correct, does not come from Jesus!
When YOU learn that NO ONE, no matter how much they try can be Jesus or even LIKE Jesus then you will come to grips with the fact that we are human and Jesus is divine. Never will the two ever be the same. When you stop trying to BE Jesus you will live a much happier life. . . believe me Jesus understands. Jesus would like you to follow his example, He doesn’t require you to. Jesus forgave those who crucified Him. He will forgive YOU too.
Was God wrong, then, in choosing the sinner David to lead in a time of crisis??
Benjamin:
I like so much of what you say. But I gotta hand it to you; it appears you hate Donald Trump. You have continued to attack him and no one else. Lighten up. It seems you have a root of bitterness sinking deeper within.
Because American cultural Christianity is apostate Christianity. Same as apostate Judaism in Daniel or Jesus’ day. Its simply a cultural reference point in their quest for self exaltation.
I have a difficult time understanding why any Christian supports Trump because I see a man who has contempt for most Americans and Christians in particular. I think many so – called political conservatives see Christians as a reliable and gullible voting block who can be placated by pandering to them about abortion and religious liberty. They don’t really need to believe in it but it’s the bone thrown to Evangelicals to keep them quiet and loyal. Don’t pay attention to the candidates personal transgressions or their clumsy attempt to “act” religious. Does anyone really believe a bible believing Christian would ever say Two Corinthians? Oh, how about his boast that no one loves the Bible more than him? For all the criticism of the inauthenticity of Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump is a huge phony. I don’t for one minute he believes much or cares for that many people. He took out a full page ad in the NYT calling for the death penalty for 5 teenage black and brown kids who were falsely convicted of raping the Central Park jogger. He is still unrepentant and refuses to accept that they were not guilty. I could recount numerous examples of petty, mean spirited behavior that make him unsuitable to chair a condo board much less the most powerful position in the free world.
Last thing – Trump only ran for president because of his disregard and disrespect for President Obama. As a privileged white male, he cannot stomach the idea that a black man happens to hold the most powerful position in the world. He refused to accept that Barack Obama was qualified to be admitted to Columbia University and most especially Harvard Law. He has stated that Obama was “allowed” to head Harvard Law Review because of affirmative action. He is complete dismissive of his intelligence and figures that he is entitled to be POTUS if Barack Obama could be elected.
Found this link that “might” be a better way to suggest your topic!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1005575582842002&set=a.171571602909075.44433.100001687100239&type=3
At best it doesn’t imply You’re A Better Christian than others that elect to support Donald Trump! And the story addresses the subject matter of harnessing your tongue!
I’m not a Christian, nor am I a Trump supporter (Kasich is my guy}; however, I was quite offended by your tone throughout the post. You could postulate your questions and explain your own objections to what you see without asking people things like “How do you contend with the fact that in order to follow Donald Trump, you first must stop following Jesus?” Accusations of hypocrisy, of not being “ok”–these are insults. Ask a question and say “I could not reconcile Jesus’ call to love our enemies with statements about torturing people.” See how that works? Denigrating those with whom you disagree will never be a smart way to start a real discussion.
Christian Americans united to elect a devout Christian president in George W. Bush whose administration got America involved in the Iraq War. Do you know which group suffered worst in Iraq because of that war? Iraqi Christians who could no longer depend on Hussein to protect them from Muslim extremists who wanted them dead. Hussein was a bad man and a strongman but he tolerated Christianity and one of his closest friends and advisors was a Chaldean Christian. Electing someone because of his devotion to Christ is not necessarily the best choice for Christians. The reality is that Trump is the politically incorrect candidate and being a devout Christian in America is politically incorrect. The reality is that the majority of the media looks down on Christians and it is Donald Trump who is doing the most to delegitimize the mainstream media and show how someone can express controversial beliefs without being shouted down. The reality is that Christian missionary work to Africa and the 3rd world is funded by middle class Christians and a strong economy will be necessary to keep funding those mission. The reality is that Donald Trump is saying many harsh things that needed to be said, and if he wasn’t a jerk with an ego he probably wouldn’t have had the gall to say those things.
Seriously Ben? You have credits from: two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (Theology & Missionlogy), is a doctoral candidate at Fuller Seminary, and is a member of the Phi Alpha Chi Honors Society … and this is the “best” you can come up with is 5 Questions? – Really??
You’re no better than the next “Christian” who spins & picks out verbiage, in an effort to make YOUR THOUGHTS seem more credible! Your sarcasm stinks and is offense!! – By your very own WORDS (that you type as opposed to speaking online [same thing]), places you in the SAME POSITION as in your smart ass example, “… but surely you’ve gotten to the part where Paul says that no unwholesome words should come out of our mouths, but only those words which edify and build people up, no?”!!
I ask you … Is your writing an effort to BUILD UP TRUMP? – I think NOT!!
So why write it?? It places you in direct contradiction of your point(s)!!!
It’s people like you that need to just stay in school and go get some more paper credit to add to your name. That’s most likely where you get your true feeling of significance.
You’re a Professional Student! I gather you excel in academics but lack in true abilities to “win friends and influence people”!!
I’m living proof that you have offended me with your published thoughts!
It’s pretty simple: the lesser of two evils. Both Clinton and Trump are horrible human beings. I’m pro babies, pro traditional family, and pro Israel. For that reason, I could never vote for Clinton. Besides, she is a liar (should be in jail) and the Benghazi murderer. I can’t stand Trump either, but of the two, I guess I’ll take him.
Actually, from what I’ve seen over the last 60+ years, most of the most vocal “Christians” don’t worship Christ, but money and power. The gospel of prosperity is huge in America for a reason: because to be poor, to be weak, to be sick, to be dying, to be vulnerable are the ultimate sins. GOD WANTS YOU TO BE HAPPY AND WEALTHY AND POWERFUL ALL THE TIME!!!! Bull hockey. But that’s the gospel that’s been preached for a very long time in this country. A crucified God, a God who says to feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the sick and in prison – that’s not the God they want, because they don’t want to be exposed to any of those things, any of those people. They want to run with the winners. And thus Trump, because who could be more of a winner than him: after all he keeps telling us all what a winner he is.
The more conservative the faith , the more viscosity in the hatred for the people Jesus loves.
Serious questions? First let’s be honest; politicians by nature do not tell the truth and use their position to enrich themselves. I will give Dr. Carson a pass on this comment because he is not a politician. I do expect the next president to do what he promises and nothing short of it. If war offends you because you live in the safety of the United States and are not aware of how our grand parents and parents fought and died for our way of life then you don’t have much choice because the candidate who wins must sware to defend our country from all enemies foreign and domestic. And that means war if necessary. Bill Clinton was not impeached for sexual misconduct with a female employee He was impeached for lying under oath about the conduct. If there are (10) Senators out of the (100) who are not adulterers I would be amazed. If there are (10) Senators who are not millionaires it’s because they have hidden their wealth. Sex, greed, power, influence and money are the lure for politicians. All I ask is that they do what they promise because I know they will profit from their position no matter what they say. If I am now to overlay my opinion of their “Christian” conduct before I vote then no one left even comes close.
attn: Moderator and everyone else
i have a general request: i need help trying to find a specific Trump quote.
i read an article (i think from back in the day) that featured Trump saying, quite clearly, that he does not believe in telling the truth or he believes that always exaggerating the truth is ok….something along those lines. basically, it’s a clear-as-day insight into how he actually views reality and “truth”. it lays the foundation for his belief that he can say whatever he wants and people take it as truth.
of course i can’t remember where i read this.
if anyone has any idea what original article this came from, please let me know! i’ll be beyond grateful!!
The quote(s) you are looking for can be found in Trump’s book “The Art of the Deal”. He calls it (the lies he tells) “benevolent hyperbole” or something close to this, and it’s intent is to tell people what they want to hear in order for Trump to get whatever it is that he wants from another person on any given day, whim, or whatever it is, that internally motivates Trump. The phrase itself was made up by the ghostwriter of the book in an attempt to whitewash one of the many disturbing and appalling behaviors witnessed by the ghostwriter during the months he was shadowing Trump for research purposes. There’s a very good article in the New Yorker this month (July 2016), journalist Jane Mayer, author of the frightening book “Dark Money “interviews the Art of the Deal ghostwriter, Tony Schwartz, now that he has finally decided to come forward and share his personal experiences writing a book for Trump, about Trump.
I realize that I am responding about 4 months late, but I am behind on my blog reading, to say the least. I hope that the answer helps, if you haven’t already found it elsewhere.
After reading the article, I delved into the comments because I, too, as a Catholic Christian, have been wondering what in the world my brothers and sisters in Christ see in this man, and unfortunately I am still as confused as I was before. One issue that wasn’t addressed in the article, nor do I see anyone commenting on, in regards to the rationale behind the support of Trump, is not one of faith but plain old common sense – if someone feels compelled to say “believe me” as often as Trump says it, isn’t that enough to give you pause to think, why? In my experience, it’s usually because they are trying to convince others to believe something that they know to be dishonest. Just a thought.
To put it bluntly, they support him because he publicly and vehemently endorses all the abominable behaviors (e.g. racism, sexism, violence against “others”, drooling over the notion of boning their own daughter, to name just a few) they have spent the last few decades wishing they could participate in without fear of consequences.
As someone that will not be voting for either Donald Chump or Hillary Corruption, I am unsure who I will vote for in the California Primary as well as the Presidential Election.
As for “The Donald” I believe that it is fear and frustration that are driving his campaign support. There are many who fear that that are losing their country and their culture. They are frustrated that their current elected officials are not only doing nothing to stop it, but seem to be helping it along. No matter how eloquently you try to persuade them, they only see some of the pillars of their lives slipping away. “The Donald” has tapped into this.
Some Christians do not see this as betraying the Christian faith, but rather as an attempt to save it. They see the unwholesome talk and constantly putting people down as the only way to get the media’s attention on the issues they care about. They see “The Donald” as someone who says rude (and sometimes repulsive) things about women. Although he may go too far, political correctness has gone too far and so it is time someone stood up. They see “The Donald’s” bullying and stance on torture as being tough in a time when we seem weak. In addition, if poor personal character truly disqualified one from holding the office of presidency, then who would be left to run?
As I said, I am unsure who I will vote for in the California Primary as well as the Presidential Election but it will not be either Donald Chump or Hillary Corruption.
Maybe the question is not how Christians can support Candidate A or Candidate B, but rather how we can support a process that leaves us without any good options. Hopefully this will cause us to pray about it before we decide what we will do.
I am SO GLAD you wrote this article.
DUMP TRUMP!!!!!!!
The Trump supporters don’t seem to be lining up to answer your questions so I found this article written by someone who might have been such a person years ago and seems to have insight:
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/17/i_was_betrayed_by_republican_religion_what_my_years_as_a_christian_fundamentalist_taught_be_about_right_wing_faith/
This quote reminds me entirely of Trump and the persona he presents on stage:
“Conservative Christianity in America is less a religion and more of a
secret handshake, a group signifier of exclusion and moral superiority.
Its swaggering and masculine cruelty is at once its greatest weakness
and most attractive feature for working class white people who have seen
their lifestyles and power eroded.”
Trump has made himself the twisted incarnation of the very anti-Christian American Conservative Christianity.
All of the points listed here are on the surface very good reasons for Christians not to support Donald Trump. I’m also disturbed that the words he’s using are causing division in real life. However, part of what is really happening is that buried resentments are being brought to the surface. This bringing of resentments out into the light of day where they can be seen may in the long run be healthier than suppressing them, it will depend on how the country as a whole responds and whether we can have the serious conversations that are needed in order to truly bring people together.
Edited to say its like having a boil on ones skin – the best approach is to lance it so as to allow the poison to get out, as painful and disgusting as that is.
With that said, I’m not quite convinced that this WWE and reality tv star who has made an art out of performance and was in the not too distant past a liberal actually means it. Not saying that its OK to use divisiveness to achieve your goals, but there are other important issues at stake as well. One issue is the US empire nation building policies that keep us in a constant state of war, propping up tyrants that oppose human rights, and causing untold misery all around the world and at home. Trump has made it clear he opposes these policies and would end them. Another major issue is trade, including proposed trade deals that would greatly increase the loss of jobs and wages here, and put even more workers abroad at risk of slave labor, not to mention environmental destruction. He is strongly opposed to that as well.
I’m a Bernie Sanders supporter myself because of these and many other issues that I believe he by far does the best job of representing Christian values on. But if the choice is between Clinton and Trump it will no longer be so black and white for me.
I feel the same way about those who support Cruz!
There is a reason that those who knew the word of God but not the Word of God, screamed for the release of Barabbas over Jesus at the time of crucifixion.
I can see the appeal of Trump’s rhetoric to the types of Christians who see interaction with the world in terms of “spiritual warfare.” Not so much for those who think in terms of peacemaking–not necessarily pacifists, but who put a lot of stock in Biblical passages like “Blessed are the peacemakers.”
Another viewpoint to consider: http://tcpca.org/2016/03/17/in-love-with-donald-trump/
Thank you Benjamin for bringing this forward. Unfortunately, it is not only Trump who is maligning a number of persons, but the other Republican Candidates as well., the only difference is that Trump can’t control his mouth or actions as to Cruz and Rubio were more cunning about how they went about things, but were and are as malicious as Trump. Kasich is the only person thus far who has been above the fray, but has mutttered things in private, just hasn’t been put out there yet. This has to be the dirtiest and most disgusting group so far, it is beyond the pale, In our daily prayers, we continue to ask God to clean up this comedy show, but maybe he is teaching the American Electorate a lesson. Let’s hope the lesson is leaned. Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be the best Commander in Chief.
It’s fear, Benjamin. First and last, fear that America is being threatened by Islam, immigration, socialism, economic Armageddon. And when people are afraid, they look to a Strongman of some kind. Trump is seen as rich and powerful, and he talks tough, so many evangelicals are willing to set aside their values in favor of the promise of someone who will save them from terrorism, poverty and foreigners ruining the country.
The reason this seems so difficult to understand for many progressive Christians and others who have a Big Picture view of their faith is: we have come to the place where perfect love casts out fear (as 1 John says it must), so we don’t let fear drive us to unacceptable extremes. We’re more clear-headed because we feel free to live (and vote) our faith without fear of what tomorrow brings. We actually trust God enough to know our only obligation is to follow His heart (which is Love), and He is responsible for the outcome. Not us.
But imagine a believer who didn’t have that trust, because in their mind perfect love hadn’t yet cast out fear. They’re scared, and rather than being able to relax in God’s love, they feel compelled to make a stand in his name. Fear is like a handicap, a robber of IQ points, because it makes no room for the peace of God which passes all understanding. Trump supporters aren’t stupid or un-Christian; they’re just frightened Christians who haven’t fully allowed the love of God to overwhelm and set them free. They will get there, eventually.
So your last question was actually the best one: they are not feeling OK.
Wide-scale Evangelical association with Trump is quite revealing: Liberty University President Jerry Falwell, televangelists Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Trinity Broadcasting Network co-founder Jan Crouch, televangelist Paula White, mega-church pastor David Jeremiah, Billy Graham Evangelistic Association President Franklin Graham, Family Research Council co-founder Tony Perkins, half-term governor Sarah Palin, former presidential runner Ben Carson, Charisma Magazine’s false prophecy from July 2015, and the list of Evangelical associations goes on and on.
Thanks Benjamin for sharing the truth about Trump. Will Trump’s Evangelical followers listen?
I’m the farthest thing from a Drumpf supporter you can find, but I know one person, a Christian, who is. He says that even though he disagrees with Drumpf’s moral values, he’s the only one “who will get stuff done.” So he’s willing to overlook his atrocious views on women, minorities, everyone but him, etc. because he’s scared America is going down the toilet unless we get a president who will make things happen.
Never mind whether Drumpf actually will get stuff done (that’s a whole other thing – because there’s no way he will), I’m gathering that’s what his Christian supporters think. They’re scared. They’re forgetting to whom we’re supposed to take our fears.
Why a Christian would support any political candidate is beyond me. Trump, Cruz, Clinton, Sanders et al, there isn’t a bit of difference between them. Voting is an act of violence. Period. The difference between the voter and a common thief is that the thief has the honesty to commit the crime himself while voters whine for government to do their stealing for them. The difference between the voter and the street thug is that the thug is open about the violence he commits, while the voter lets others forcibly control their neighbors on their behalf. They advocate theft, harassment, assault and even murder, but accept no responsibility for doing so.
Enjoyed your post….I would really be interested to see how a Christian supporting Trump answers these questions. I suspect that it would become evident quite quickly that they are not really a Christian. In truth the people at Trump rallies look positively frightening.
Amen! Great post. I just cannot comprehend how a Christian could back Trump. Then again, I feel that way with basically all the candidates, but that’s another issue.
Great post. I’m with you…how can we support this guy? I’m amazed, but told by others, “what other options do we have?” I understand the frustration, but Trump is not the answer.